Answers To Your Questions About Precious Stones In The Bible

Why do some Christians not believe in purgatory when the Bible clearly teaches it?

I think that most Catholics would agree that Purgatory is more of a hospital than a jail.

Cleansing or sanctification is a gradual process and we must endure to the end to be saved.

(Mat 10:22 DRB) And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.

(Mat 24:13 DRB) But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

(Mar 13:13 DRB) And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake. But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved.

Catholic soteriology recognizes that for some of us the process was not completed at death or that we died with unrepentant sin.

(Heb 9:27 DRB) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment:

The judgment is our eternal destiny and for those whose name is in the Lamb’s Book of Life, heaven is assured. But we know that one must be free of sin to be in God’s presence.

(1Ti 6:14 DRB) That thou keep the commandment without spot, blameless, unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,

It may be that one is not prepared to be in our Lord’s presence as we may still be with spiritual shortcomings or temporal effects of forgiven sins on our soul making it necessary for some form of purification to enter heaven in God’s presence. Since this is a process of purgation it is called purgatory and it is in keeping with prophecy of the prophet Habakkuk who said that only that which is holy may enter heaven.

(Hab 1:13 DRB) Thy eyes are too pure to behold evil, and thou canst not look on iniquity. Why lookest thou upon them that do unjust things, and holdest thy peace when the wicked devoureth the man that is more just than himself?

St. Paul also taught of a process of purgation which may involve suffering on the soul of Christians and in his first letter to the Corinthian Church he describes the process of purgation after death.

(1Co 3:10 DRB) According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation: and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

(1Co 3:11 DRB) For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid: which is Christ Jesus.

(1Co 3:12 DRB) Now, if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble:

(1Co 3:13 DRB) Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.

(1Co 3:14 DRB) If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

(1Co 3:15 DRB) If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

St. Paul speaks metaphorically that the results of sin that remain on one’s soul is like “wood, hay and straw” and are burned away in the process of final purification to be received in the presence of the Lord. St. Paul also speaks of one’s works as “gold, silver and precious stones” which are refined and retained.

This passage reminds me of what Christ said in the following indicating that some sins may be forgiven after death.

(Mat 12:32 DRB) And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

Purgatory is also related to the parable of the unforgiving servant which is as follows…

(Mat 18:32 DRB) Then his lord called him: and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me:

(Mat 18:33 DRB) Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee?

(Mat 18:34 DRB) And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt.

After telling the parable Christ emphasizes His message lest it be misunderstood with this warning……..

(Mat 18:35 DRB) So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.

Christ was warning us of the danger of a hard heart or anger making us unwilling to forgive others. We should acknowledge that these are the signs and example of a defective soul in need of purgation so that he that is imperfect may be in the presence of God and dwell in glory. (See CCC 1030-1032)

In Christ
Fr. Joseph
Father K, I understand your points but by theological speculation alone, if there is no purgatory heaven may well be an empty place for eternity.
Michael m,

You misunderstand the doctrine of purgatory. It is not a second chance but a place of purification where one may enter into the presence of our Lord after they have run a successful race and endured to the end. When one enters purgatory they are already saved.
James W,

The Catholic Church has NEVER denounced its doctrine of purgatory or changed it in any way. I believe you are speaking of the theological speculation of limbo and have the two confused.
TroothBTold,

I think your view comes from the Protestant misunderstanding of purgatory. At least one protestant minister, John Wesley, spoke of perfectionism in this life, possible but rare. He is one of the few to proclaim that one can be sanctified in this life and he left the Moravian Church over this issue after a rebuke by Count Zinzendorf for this teaching.

People in purgatory are already justified by receiving the supernatural eternal life into our souls through Baptism making us a part of the Body of Christ. Those in purgatory have accepted Christ by faith and have not rejected Him by unrepentant mortal sin. It is a place where one is purified by fire (Mal 3:2). Imagine the joy of being in purgatory and knowing that you are there because you have passed judgment and are assured of being in the presence of God in heaven. Purgatory is not an eternal destination, there are only two, heaven or hell.
We should not think of purgatory as some kind of legal punishment for past sins as it would be under the old law. Those in purgatory are already new creatures changed by Christ’s grace, they are the adopted children and part of God’s family in purgatory one receives final discipline and cleansing preparing one for the perfection of heaven. Catholics believe that sanctification is a process and is not completed when one comes to belief. So purgatory is not a suggestion that Christ’s atonement is insufficient but that we have not yet completed our sanctification through the grace of Christ.
KarenW,

In these discussions it serves no purpose when you create a straw man and then argue against it. Instead, try addressing the true beliefs in purgatory and not your straw man. Perhaps a better place to get your theology would be in Christ's Church or through personal study instead of off TV. Until you understand the doctrine of purgatory it is useless to argue from a position of ignorance.
Lone Ranger,

It amazes me when copious Scriptures are quoted supporting doctrine and some one refutes those Scriptures by saying that they do not exist or are misquoted. Neither of these accusations are true. One may disagree with the exegesis but it is bearing false witness to say that it is false doctrine based on such an obvious lie. May I remind you that Dante wrote fiction.

You are also calling Christ a liar when you say that His Church is apostate because He promised when He created His Church that the gates of hell will never prevail against His Church. His promise remains true despite the attacks such as the fanciful history and comparisons of people like Alexander Hislop.
Bill,

There is no reincarnation. Therefore if there is no immortal soul as the4 bible teaches then we have no hope in Christ thus there is no Gospel message to the world through Christ's sacrifice. What you teach is truly false doctrine.

The Bible says we will build homes in Heaven.?

As Christians we are taught to believe that Heaven will be a perfect place. In the Bible it says of Heaven; "They will build houses and dwell in them." So I wonder, how will we do that? Will we use power tools, or hand tools, wood, cement or thatch, or gold and precious stones, or what? If Heaven is perfect, does that mean we will never miss the head of the nail with the hammer and hit our thumb instead, or if we hit our thumb then it won't hurt? It also says "they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit". So if we are using a pruning shear on our grapevine and we slip, will we never cut off a finger, or if we do, will it not hurt and it will grow back immediately or? Will the grass always stop growing at just the right height so we never have to mow it???

Liberals and the Bible ?

the bible speaks of some sorta woman on top of an Empire called Babylon ...and she is described as a beast in a bible ...I think its the Liberals in america ....here is how I found out

Bible-So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Bible-And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Bible-And upon her forehead was a name written a mystery: BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Meaning This woman hates Babylon the Great and calls her the Mother of Abominations of the Earth ...that is a perfect representation of Liberals ....they think everything in the world is Americas fault

here is why I think its liberals below

Bible-And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sat.

hmm 7 heads are 7 mountains .....she sat on 7 heads ...It says wisdom in that passage so I looked up how many colleges are there in america ...and there are some 7,000 colleges in america

OMG...the Beast is Liberalism ..she sat on 7 heads which are 7 mountains which represents a thousand
I was not talking about the Whore of Babylon you idiot

So where in the Bible does it say that Satan used to be a perfect angel?

For some reason, nobody can prove the common Satan doctrine in all church organizations I've seen. I've already asked three detailed questions and only got drone responses from the Christians.

The verse that states the perfectness of the king of Tyre before his fall is in Ezekiel 28:12:

12Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: You are the full measure and pattern of exactness [giving the finishing touch to all that constitutes completeness], full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the carnelian, topaz, jasper, chrysolite, beryl, onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and your settings and your sockets and engravings were wrought in gold. On the day that you were created they were prepared.

14You were the anointed cherub that covers with overshadowing [wings], and I set you so. You were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire [like the paved work of gleaming sapphire stone upon which the God of Israel walked on Mount Sinai].

15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity and guilt were found in you.

16Through the abundance of your commerce you were filled with lawlessness and violence, and you sinned; therefore I cast you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Your heart was proud and lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I lay you before kings, that they might gaze at you.

18You have profaned your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities and the enormity of your guilt, by the unrighteousness of your trade. Therefore I have brought forth a fire from your midst; it has consumed you, and I have reduced you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who looked at you.

19All who know you among the people are astonished and appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and shall never return to being.

So the king of Tyre was in the Garden until iniquity was found in him -- interesting. And he's nothing but ashes now. The Lord doesn't call him Satan, but the king of Tyre.

False doctrine: Under the doctrine that equates the king of Tyre with Satan, what Jesus said becomes a violation when He said:

John 8:44 (Amplified Bible)

44You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false.

If Satan was a murderer from the beginning, he was never perfect and upright. So then the king of Tyre and Satan cannot be the same entity.

Does this prove that the antichrist of the Bible will come from islam !!!!?

I already know that the mahdi of islam is the antichrist of the Bible !

and Isa ( islamic Jesus ) is the false prophet of the Bible that would accompany the beast ( antichrist/ mahdi )

and that allah is the dragon that would give power to the beast ----- dragon = satan !

In fact all the nations Jesus ( Bible ) is fighting against are all islamic nations !

Its pretty clear that islam is playing the major role of the Antichrist religion

Do these quote from the Bible back it up !

The antichrist - Daniel 11:37 - He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by WOMEN!!! , nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts (zakat). He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price. !!!

In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me (Jesus) . John 16:2

1 John 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who acknowledges the Son has the Father also." This is someone who denies Christ as the only anointed one and refuses the interrelationship of the persons who are deity.

1 John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world." Several times this term is used in the plural, and can be applied to almost anyone who is opposed to Christ. Those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh are anti-Christ or of the spirit of antichrist. This is one of the ways to discern a false teacher from a true one.

Jesus said : I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. Joel 3:2
@lina <3 you must know that islam orders every muslim to kill non believers ( infidels ) this is an order to muslims ..... those that follow the quran word for word are known as terrorist ! but all muslims are terrorist because they are ordered to kill. In fact give me one verse in the quran that says love a non believer ! you won't find it !