Paul asks…
What do you think of the following Bible quote?
2 Samuel 12:29-31:
"And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it. And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof [was] a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was [set] on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance. And he brought forth the people that [were] therein, and put [them] under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem."
This isn't meant to be a single quote taken in isolation that's supposed to just destroy the faith of Jews and Christians. That's silly. Go ahead, read it in full context. I honestly want to know what you all think of the passage.
You don't need a specific question. It's a quote about an army of Jews genocidally destroying a population - to the point of burning them alive. What do you think of that?
And don't you find it ironic that many of the people who would ordinarily be arguing for the existence of enduring moral principles will argue that King David was "a child of his day" or that "that's just how wars were back then"? Does that say anything about the notion of moral continuity in the Bible?
It was a general question because you either want to think about it and answer it, or you want to offer some trite one line dismissal. That's fine, too. I do it. Get your points.
admin answers:
Where do you get that they were burnt alive? "and made them pass through the brick kiln" is figurative- it means they dragged them through the mud of the streets. In other words- there was a war- David won, and he took captives, and after yoking them together he dragged them through the streets.
And why is it referred to as a "brick kiln'- because being embarassed is often referred to as "burning"- a reference to the heat of blood rising to the cheeks- so the captives were humiliated by being dragged through muddy streets.
Steven asks…
is the catholic church/ the vatican really the whore mentioned in the bible?
just check this out....
revelation17:2 with her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.
this means to me that notice how the pope meets with all the important people presidents, which refers to kings in the bible. thats how this church commited adulteries and its tricking people into worshiping images and worshipping idols like the pope.
heres another one
revelation17:4 the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glitering with gold precious stones and pearls....
the vaticans colors are purple and scarlet and the vatican is super filthy rich with all that gold in their palaces even the pope wears crowns
so tell me hows this possible.
admin answers:
Biblical fundamentalism claims that they take the entire Bible literally (literal words literally understood). If this was true then there is no mention of the Catholic Church in the book of Revelation as the Whore of Babylon.
Only by not taking the Bible literally and using contortions of interpretation, a few groups and individuals equate the Whore in Revelation 17-18 with the Catholic Church since Rome is a famous city of seven hills and the Church's principal headquarters is in Rome. This position cannot be defended.
"The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits."
No Pope has ever lived or had his "seat" (cathedra or cathedral) on any of the seven hills of Rome. These hills are small hillocks (Capitoline, Palatine, Esquiline, Aventine and three lesser "bumps" in central Rome) where the religion and government of pagan Rome was situated. All of these hills are on the east side of the Tiber River. The whore is clearly the ancient pagan Roman empire which was persecuting the early Church.
The Pope, his cathedral, and the Vatican have always been on a different hill on the west of the Tiber. At the time that John wrote Revelation the Christians of Rome lived mostly in Trastevere (trans Tiber), a district "across the Tiber" from Rome and adjacent to the Vatican hill where St. Peter was crucified and buried. The Vatican is on top of that burial site and is today its own city-state distinct from Rome and Italy.
Here is a map: http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Image:Seven_Hills_of_Rome.jpg
The whore is clearly meant to be the ancient pagan Roman Empire which was persecuting the early Church who had killed many Christians including prophets and Apostles like Saints Peter and Paul.
With love in Christ.
Lisa asks…
You know how the bible talks about ' building' in the church, that we build upon Christ as the foundation?
with 2 sets of material. There is the gold, silver and precious stones, then there is the wood, grass and stubble.
1 Corinthians 3:12
But if anyone builds upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, stubble,
What does the first set represent? What does the second set represent?
Paul cautions us to " take heed' how we build.
10 According to the grace of God given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid a foundation, and another builds upon it. But let each man take heed how he builds upon it.
Was really considering this matter this morning. That when we come together as believers, we are building up something. What we give to one another builds up with the gold, silver and precious stones, OR we build with the things that perish, like the wood, grass and stubble.
I ask myself.. " do I have the consideration that there is a kind of building up taking place when I sing, teach, speak, have a revelation?
1 Corinthians 14:26
What then, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for BUILDING UP.
I ask myself, what have I been putting into my brothers and sisters to build them up. We are for sure, being built up together to be a dwelling place of God in spirit.
Ephesians 2:22
In whom you also are being BUILD TOGETHER into a dwelling place of God in spirit.
admin answers:
I guess the building up with wood, grass and stubble would be doing the work for God without his will in it and doing it without the help of the Holy Spirit.
When we build with gold, silver and precious stones we are giving out the true word of God, and being led by the Spirit in doing so which results in edifying the body of Christ. Everything must be done for edification for the body. So, criticizing another member of the body is also like the grass and stubble that will not hold when the rains come. The true work of the Holy Spirit will result in a firm foundation and when the storms come, those who have been feeding on the word and getting edified will stand firm.
Sharon asks…
Bible believers: What do you think was the chain of events regarding Satan's rebellion against God?
consider these passages
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Isaiah 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
Ezekiel 28:13-15 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
Genesis 3:1-5 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.' " 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Did Satan first try to get humans to join him in his rebellion or had had he already fallen when he started a rebellion against God and got Angels to join him?
Ezekiel refers to the "anointed cherub" a cherub is not a human king. In Isaiah Lucifer is the "power" behind the evil kings. The serpent in Genesis 3 is identified as the Devil in Revelation 12.
admin answers:
1) What do you think was the chain of events regarding Satan's rebellion against God?
Since the bible gives us no indication, I cannot imagine what they might have been. That's sort of like asking someone what would they guess happened during the life of someone that they've never met or read about. For example: what do you think was the chain of events resulting in my moving from one state to another?
2) consider these passages
Gen 1:26 - does not mention Satan directly or indirectly
Isa 14:12 - ditto
Eze 28:13-15 - ditto
Gen 3:1-5 - well, **IF** we assume that this was Satan (and not a serpent as is claimed by the bible), all it tells us for sure is that Satan was operating on Earth at the time and that there is no indication here that "Satan" had fallen from Heaven. Indeed, considering that Satan appears much later (certainly after the Noadic flood) in Job and is able to travel freely between Heaven and Earth in that account, it would seem that even at that "late" date Satan had not yet been cast out of Heaven as described by Jesus.
So, really, you have to base the "chain of events" on passages that actually refer to Satan, passages that you did not reference. Satan was not "cast out" during the time of Job (though he may already have incurred lesser disfavor), and he was able to "contest" with "the angel of the Lord" in Zechariah chapter 3. It *is* interesting that Satan is not described as an angel in Zechariah. It may be that this vision was of a future event - but IF I were to hazard a guess, I would begrudgingly admit that it would seem as if Satan may have been in rebellion in the time of Zechariah.
Some claim that the contest over Moses' body is evidence of Satan's fall at a fairly early date: however, Job was almost certainly written long after the time of Moses and recounts a person living a settled life (clearly not a nomadic one) in the Promised Land. Linguistic analysis likewise places Job later than Moses - in fact, either very late in the Kingdom Period or more probably even *later*. If we judge that Satan was not "cast out" in Job, then we have to believe that this happened sometime late in the Kingdom Period or afterward, but possibly before the time of Zechariah.
Revelation mentions "Satan and his angels". The problem here is: is this passage speaking of *actual* angels - supernatural beings created as servants for God? Or is it speaking of **messengers** - the actual translation of the term "angels"? More: Revelation tells us plainly that those events are in the future of the author - proving that the "fall" of Satan in Revelation cannot be the same as the one that Jesus witnessed *unless* Jesus was speaking prophetically. Considering Satan's actions in the New Testament, it would seem extremely likely that he had already fallen from Heaven before Jesus spoke of witnessing that event. Therefore, the answer to the question of Satan's angels is only more questions:
* are we speaking of supernatural beings or messengers?
* is there any evidence that Satan seduced other angels to follow him (instead of God) earlier than the time of Revelation?
* Revelation speaks of Satan enlisting humans in his rebellion against God, but this is clearly apocalyptic - by which I mean, an event that occurs in our future. We know that Satan attempted to enlist the ultra-powerful Jesus - but other than that, has he ever actually made an attempt (in the bible) to enlist human followers *prior* to the time of Revelation?
The answer is that the bible tells us next to nothing about the fall of Satan or of any **existing** (as opposed to **future**) following of supernatural angels.
Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com
Ken asks…
Bible Scholars - Who is Mystery Babylon according to scripture?
Rev 17:3-5 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Do you know there is scripture that will tell you who it is?
Give the scriptures that answer, opinion respected but not accepted as best answer.
admin answers:
Simple
Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Where was Jesus crucified? Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was a Harlot and called Sodom and Egypt for fornicating with Rome. Hence she sat upon Rome who was the scarlet beast.
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